Podcast Host vs. Podcast Guest: Which strategy is right for you?

NOTE: This podcast was transcribed by a free AI tool called Otter. Please forgive any typos or errors. Melissa: Welcome to the Wit & Wire podcast. I’m Melissa, a former teachable employee and marketing director turned full-time course creator, and I help entrepreneurs turn their skills and passions into profitable online businesses. I don’t believe that business is one size fits all. That’s why this season I’ve invited industry experts to compare today’s hottest sales and marketing strategies to empower you to use your strengths and create a personalized online business plan. I’ve been a podcast host and producer for over four years. And I’ve loved using my expertise to not only reach thousands of listeners through my own shows, but to help when and why our students launch their own podcasts to. What you may not know is that I’ve also been a guest on over 50 podcasts. And the benefits I’ve found as a podcast host are pretty different from the ones I’ve experienced as a guest. I also know that no matter which side of the mic you’re on. Creating a great pitch and finding either guests or hosts to partner up with is a major challenge. And that’s going to be a huge topic of discussion today with my two very special guests. First let’s meet Sarah Penner. Sarah is the founder of the podcast, guest collaboration, community, Facebook group. Which has 25,000 members and counting as well as the podcast collab club membership. Sarah actually had a different business when we met a few years ago. I had joined a bunch of different entrepreneur groups and I was in those regularly on Facebook. Sarah: And I started to notice a trend. There was people looking for guests for their podcasts, people looking to be a guest on podcasts. and I thought, what if we had one place where solely, that was the focus of the group was to make a connection between these two sides. And so I started the group and it took off. Melissa: It’s no surprise that Sarah’s group has grown like wildfire because both podcast hosts and guests are looking for opportunities to connect. And our second guest is no stranger to either side of the microphone. Meet Mai-Kee Tsang, the founder of the sustainable visibility movement and the host of the quiet rebels podcast. Mai-Kee: So I needed something to hold me publicly accountable to actually show up on a consistent basis. So that’s the premise of creating the quiet rebels podcast. And also I wanted to create a space where I could have very conscious conversations of what it’s like to show up in a way that you don’t have to be the loudest person in the room in order to be heard. Melissa: In addition to her hosting experience Mai-Kee is also a seasoned pitch professional. And this experiment is what started at all. Mai-Kee: I actually reached a point in my business where all of the referrals I was so used to receiving, they suddenly vanished into thin air. So I challenged myself to pitch to 101 podcasters in 30 days and 101 is a lot. So I don’t actually recommend the same thing. I let a lot of lessons. And what happened was I actually received one yes. In every three pitches I sent, which is a 33. Booking rate, not response rate, a booking rate. And I took that very unique opportunity to ask what made you say yes to my pitch, to the people who said yes to me. And I started noticing that there were very common patterns with what podcasts was look for, no matter how big or small their podcast is. Melissa: And that’s exactly what we’ll cover today. Not only will you learn the benefits and challenges of being both a host and a guest? But you’ll also learn how podcast hosts can amplify the growth of their shows and businesses through guesting. And if you aren’t sure where to start, we’ll teach you how to create a strong pitch that stands out whether you’re pitching hosts or guests. Now, obviously hosting a podcast is close to my heart. And as someone who has not only three podcasts in her resume, but also a signature program, the podcast launch accelerator. I’ve seen firsthand, just how many opportunities that hosting a podcast can bring into your life and your business. I love having conversations and I’ve always been told I’ve been a good listener before. And so, because of that, I know that I can hold space for my guests to be able to really reel out that gems that they can bring to a show Melissa: and even if you don’t interview guests, conversation can be between you and your listener or you and a cohost, but that opportunity to share a message, story, your expertise or inspiration with a wider audience is an amazing privilege that we have as hosts. Mai-Kee: When you’re a guest on someone else’s podcast, we of course contribute to someone else’s mission. Right. And I found that being my own hosts has allowed me to actually make room and take up space with conversations that I really feel needs to be more prominent in the online business industry. Melissa: another huge benefit that podcasting has brought into my life has been the connections I’ve built with guests. And yes, there have been business connections. Partnerships. I’ve gone on to be a guest on other people’s podcasts. All of that is true, but I’ve also made real friends and that to me is invaluable. Sarah: I think the connections with like-minded entrepreneurs is one of the biggest ones. And I’ve seen people in my Facebook group who have connected with other people that they’re posting about each other And I see it being as such a way to support each other and really to, to connect with those other entrepreneurs. I’ve also felt so fortunate to be able to interview everyone. Who’s been on one of my podcasts because I’ve learned so much from them. And it’s really rewarding to be able to share those conversations with my audience. So overall, I think hosting a podcast has been the most authentic way I’ve ever been able to create connections and opportunities for my business. While still serving my listeners. Some hosts kind of see it as, doing the guest a favor because they’re having them on the show, but I really think having the perspective of it’s helping both of you, you’re getting great content for your podcast, so your audience can benefit from it. And it’s really like a two-way street another huge benefit that you get as a podcast host is the ability to build your business and to sell your own products and services to . Your listeners. Mai-Kee: I’ve heard firsthand from my clients, from my sustainable visibility incubator, which is a 10 K mentorship program that I offer. It just took her several times hearing the add at the beginning of my podcast episodes. She needed to hear it quite a few times before she signed up. And so that’s why just like being consistent with your message. And understand that feeling of like, oh, am I . Annoying people by saying this too much, but most of the time we need to remove. We are not the center of everyone else’s universe. It actually serves as a gentle reminder of how we can help people. And so . That has been very helpful just to be able to have a place where I can promote myself . my own authentic expression has been incredible. Melissa: So overall there’s no shortage of benefits to starting a podcast. You can deepen relationships with listeners, build up a platform around your message, create connections with guests and sell your own products and services. At the same time. It’s not for everyone. Because it can take a lot of work to create great content and growth. Doesn’t happen overnight. Podcasting is definitely a long-term strategy, not a short-term fix. Mai-Kee: Before you even think of starting a podcast, you absolutely need to ask yourself, is this a sustainable for me? Is this how I love connecting with people? Can I see myself doing this on a weekly or a fortnightly monthly whatever frequency basis? And am I willing to do this for the long haul? Because you know, a lot of podcasts start and then they kind of fade away after a couple of months. Sarah: It’s a huge commitment for sure. But to be able to say, I’m going to do this on a continuous basis, and it’s a habit for you is just going to be such a huge benefit. Another challenge could be finding the right guests for your podcast because you want to have an aligned audience but here’s Sarah’s best tip on who to look forYou don’t want to have direct competitor, but you can have someone on your show who is, speaking in a complementary way. They may offer a complimentary service, but their audience are still the same people. Melissa: But whether you host your own podcast or not. It’s worth considering the strategy of going on other podcasts to build your audience and your business. Sarah: You can broaden your reach. You can get in front of new people, which is really important and gain that visibility. And just being able to share your message. I know there’s people in my Facebook group, there’s something that maybe happened to them in life that they’ve learned from. And they just really want to reach other people and make an impact. And then there’s other people who maybe have that story as well, but also are growing a business with it. So it’s like that know like, and trust factor that’s super important. Mai-Kee: It can absolutely increase brand openness. But it can also increase brand loyalty. Like your audience may already be aware of your work, but when they hear you have a conversation with someone who they also trust, it just solidifies that trust even deeper with them to want to stick around. Melissa: It also helps to establish you as a go-to person Sarah: if people start seeing you popping up on more and more podcasts, they’re going to remember that, and really see you as the expert. And you can also put on your website where you’ve been featured and that instantly brings credibility as well, even if they haven’t listened to the show. So, for example, you could embed an episode on your about page or on a speaking slash PR page. And even if you aren’t the host of the show, you can grab embed codes to any podcast episodes that you’ve been a part of via Spotify. And you’ll actually find an example , on my website, Whitten wire.com. If you head to my speaking page in the footer. Another benefit to being a podcast guest is the evergreen quality of podcasts. So unlike going live on social media podcast episodes last for a very long time, and people will continue to find it in the future. Mai-Kee: Like right now we’re showing up and with speaking, but the beauty of it is that it turns into autopilot afterwards. Meaning that it lives on forever on the internet. So if you Google my name, for example, there’s about eight, if not nine pages that go back and a lot of them are podcast interviews. And some interviews yet it may not be as relevant as they once were because we all evolve in our businesses. But just really acknowledging that there is an autopilot element of podcasts, I think is really important. Melissa: But just because that content is evergreen doesn’t mean that you need to start focusing on quantity over quality Mai-Kee: often when people come to me and they say, oh, I want to get on a hundred podcasts this year. I look at them and I’m like, do you have the capacity to share up for that? And I don’t just mean for the interview. I mean, everything before, during, and after, because often I find that the ones who want to be on as many podcasts as possible, they don’t often do the host justice by actually promoting the interview. They just do the interview and they leave and go to the next one Melissa: so before you pitch yourself as a guest, I would ask yourself, would I be willing to share this with my audience? And at minimum, I always try to share every episode that I’ve been featured on with my social media audience. It’s not about promoting your thing. It’s about getting your message out there in a way that people are going to benefit and you’re really there to provide the value. Sarah: It’s a conversation, it’s a relationship. It’s the first step possibly of connecting with those listeners. Melissa: And although you want to lead with value, you want to close with an offer. It is not salesy. It is completely appropriate. So you want to typically share either a free lead magnet. Or some kind of invitation to work with you or learn more Sarah: So you also want to make sure that you have a way of nurturing them afterwards. So I’d make sure that you have that in place as well before you start to be a guest. And if you’re feeling excited about guesting we’re about to offer a few tips to craft the perfect pitch but i did want to share a few of the major challenges that a lot of podcasts guests run up against Sarah: You don’t have control over airing the episode and producing the episodes. So getting on can be tricky for some people Mai-Kee: aside from number of episodes and reviews, There is not much available for us to understand the size and the quality of someone’s audience. Like for example, on YouTube, you can often see how many subscribers they have, right? So a challenge that my clients have come to me over the years, they’ve said, how do I know which podcast to pitch towards? Cause I don’t know what their audience is like. And So we need to make quite a few assumptions based on quality of reviews, how long they’ve had their podcast for and just things like that. So If you’re going to reach for the, you know, top 100, for example, there’s naturally going to be much more competition for that, which is why I actually venture more into the top 200, then they’re still pretty well ranked, but they have a lot less competition because it’s not the original a hundred, Melissa: Another challenge I’ve personally experienced is the feeling that the host has forgotten about you because unfortunately communication is not every hosts, strong suit, and sometimes that can leave you unsure if the interview is even happening or how to prepare. Sarah: I’ve heard several stories of people, going for an interview and coming to their computer in their pajamas. Having no clue that the host was planning to record on video as well, that just wasn’t communicated to them. So, all those pieces are really challenging for guests. Another one I often hear of is if they’ve recorded an episode and then they either don’t get communication about that episode being aired, it could be months and they still haven’t heard or seen it. And sometimes the interviews just never air. So that can be super frustrating for guests as well. Mai-Kee: And also another challenge is not knowing how your experience with the host is going to be, if the host has not prepped you by letting you know that as an organic conversation or list of questions can really change overall outcome of the interview itself. Melissa: This is surprisingly common but if it happens to you as a guest don’t hesitate to Reach out Mai-Kee: If you don’t know how it’s going to be. Take the initiative and reach out to ask, first of all, and second of all, do your own research by listening to guest interviews that the host has already done. So you can get a feel of how they look after their guests. Like, do they hold spaces at back or do they interject a lot? You know, you want to prepare yourself for that because ultimately a podcast interview, while it is a conversation, it’s still a form of public speaking. And so you need to be able to know how to navigate curve ball questions or curveball interjections So that’s definitely the genuine struggle for a lot of guests, Melissa: And if you are a podcast host, you can see that unfortunately, the bar is kind of low when it comes to great communication from other podcast hosts out there. So just by having your own systems in place where you clearly confirm the details of the podcast interview ahead of time, that’s going to make sure your guest feels at ease, which will ultimately lead to the best possible interview. But before you can have those great conversations, you first have to find great guests. And that’s exactly what we’re going to talk about in this next section on crafting the perfect pitch. Now, whether you’re the host or the guest. A great pitch has the same key elements from either side. And after pitching her 101 podcasts in 30 days, Mai-Kee is here to offer her best tips. Mai-Kee: I actually teach seven elements of a yes, worthy pitch, but honestly the seven elements are difficult to remember all at once. So I’ve actually distilled it even . Further into what I like to call the PR method. Melissa: In this case p r stands for personalization and relevancy Mai-Kee: personalization acts as the hook. And it’s very important to have that because you’d be surprised how many pitches I receive as a host when they don’t even write my name or they do. And they get it wrong. It makes no sense to me. Cause I’m like, ah, the email that you’re emailing this to has my name. And it shows very little attention to detail. And I honestly feel that it’s very disrespectful, especially if you’re asking to be on someone else’s platform, that’s very minimum that you can do. Melissa: But of course personalization comes down to a lot more than just getting the host’s name. Right. You also want to make sure that they know that this pitch only went to them. And not a hundred other hosts too. Mai-Kee: also referencing their podcast and giving a very specific takeaway to show that you’re not just saying these things generically, because we can tell when something is sent on mass. So personalization is key to get the initial hook for someone’s attention. Melissa: But that’s just the start. Mai-Kee: You can personalize it all you want, but if your topics aren’t relevant to what the host wants to talk about, or they’ve talked about it already very recently, no matter how passable it is, it’s not going to be a yes. Sarah: I would definitely listen to some episodes before pitching and then.you’ve done your research what is your unique value that you can bring? It’s not about seeing, I am an expert in this here are my credentials. those things can be important to show that you are, qualified but there’s people that will post in the Facebook group. They’re there looking for guests, they may get 200, 300 responses. but you really want to show how you can stand out because often they’re pretty cookie cutter, some of them, and there’s just not something that’s gonna, you know, pop to the host. Melissa: They want to be able to instantly see, oh my goodness, this topic would be so helpful for my podcast. And I’ve often given that tip to both hosts and guests, instead of pitching yourself. Pitch an episode idea. Because that way, if you’re pitching a host, they’ll really be able to see does this topic suit my audience. And if you’re the host, you’ll be reaching out to a guest for a very specific reason. So they’ll feel very special and honored to be the one that you thought of. Mai-Kee: Don’t stack your bio and all of the things that you’ve done. So I’ve seen someone just like put their bio and assume that that was enough basically what you want to do is minimize resistance and actually flip them to say yes, you don’t want them to do any work. So, some people show lists of different topics that they can use. I personally teach my clients to pitch one topic. Because it feels a lot more curated and also the fact that they lay out the groundwork of what this episode would look like. Melissa: So the key to getting the guests is making your pitch personalized, relevant, and specific. After you send your pitch, it’s a best practice that you can follow up roughly a week later via email. However, make sure you do read the fine print of the application process, especially if you’re a guest submitting to an online application. Mai-Kee: The more pitches. The less likely that they will actually respond to your tool unless they’re saying yes to you. So something that we can do as potential guests is that we can follow up with them, but do not follow up like if they’re asking you to fill out a form, they’ll say, do not follow up. So that’s definitely something to cover. Melissa: Now as a podcast host, I know a lot of my Wit & Wires students have been surprised by how many people say yes to their podcast and how quickly they’re able to not only find guests, but start receiving pitches. So I want to encourage you to be discerning because to me, I know I feel a personal responsibility to make sure there’s diverse representation on my podcast. And the best way I’ve found to do that is to continue pitching guests proactively instead of only saying yes to the people who reach out. I also know that podcast listeners build up a lot of trust for their favorite hosts. So any person or business that you put in front of them, they’re going to trust that endorsement. Mai-Kee: Some of my guests have come to me and said, Hey, someone who listened to the podcast interview on your podcast, they’ve become a client of mine. And I was like, yeah, I’m not surprised because they know the degree of vetting I do for my guests. Whenever you have someone on your show or you’re on someone else’s show, you are showing that you’re advocating for this person to a degree. And because I hold my standards pretty high in that regard, there’s no wonder why my listeners would go and hire whoever I put in front of them. Melissa: I also think that being a podcast host is an advantage as a guest because you’re experienced on the microphone. You come with your own equipment and there are often a lot of great collaboration or partnership opportunities that two hosts can come together to join forces on. As a host, if you don’t know the guests that well, that you’re pitching, you may want to consider as part of your process having a pre-interview screening call. And although i don’t think this is a requirement and i don’t do it for every guest that i interview i do think that the pre-interview chat can be really beneficial for both parties Sarah: if they offer to do a pre-interview chat, I would take them up on that even just for a few minutes, because you can get some more information about what they’re looking for. And that’s another thing too. You really want to make sure you know exactly who you’re speaking to as the audience. So clarify that with the host so that you know how to tailor your message to that particular audience . Melissa: And even if there’s no pre-interview chat. The best podcast guests always come into an interview prepared. So if you send an email pitch, just look it up and you’ll sense, folder. And if you submit a form, here’s a tip that I recommend my clients to do. And I do this myself. Take a screenshot before you submit it and save that screenshot in your Google drive Dropbox, or in my case, I just leave it as an unsent email in my drafts. Mai-Kee: And then I’ll put in the subject line, do not send, this is a screenshot of X costs, pitch form Then I know exactly what I said I would talk about on that interview. Sarah: I always like to ask for the questions or at least an outline of what the show will cover and I remember things by writing, so writing down some answers, just so it’s fresh in my mind before I go to the interview can be really helpful. Mai-Kee: yes, listen to a couple of interviews from the host, especially when they have a guest, because you really want to again, like see any patterns, with how the host actually treats their guests Do they interject or hold space? What kind of questions do they tend to ask? Is there a set question that you want to just be prepared for Melissa: and then the day of the interview, you’ll want to make sure that you run a sound check and you prepare your space just as a podcast host would. Sarah: So making sure don’t have dogs barking and phones are off Mai-Kee: Make sure that your microphone set up, that you’ve got everything in place lighting. If you want to focus on that, your background in case that there is a video component to it as well, communicating with your family but I do also want to touch on, psychological preparation. So I’ve been trained as a public speaker and sometimes we get nervous but I want to make sure that I’m psyching myself up or down based on the kind of energy I want to bring. . The host’s preparation is similar, where you’d come into an interview, learning about your guest, preparing thoughtful questions and ready to not only ask, but listen, so that you can follow up and stay engaged throughout. After the interview, hopefully both the host and the guest promote their episodes so that you can both reach as wide of an audience as possible. And since we’ve covered the entire process from pitch to publish, it’s time to ask the question. Who should start a podcast who should guest on podcasts and what are the major differences? To recap. Hosting a podcast is a great opportunity for you to create a platform where you can share your stories or your expertise with your audience. You get to build relationships with both guests and your listeners. And although there are challenges when it comes to building an audience. Ultimately, you’re creating a channel that is yours. And especially as a business owner, that is an invaluable way to continue building those relationships and eventually to sell your own products and services. On the other hand as a podcast host, you will still need to employ other marketing strategies to build your audience. And that’s where podcast guesting comes in. Whether you have a show or not the biggest benefit that you’ll have to being a guest is the ability to expand your audience. And ideally you’d be offering some kind of freebie or offer to bring them back to your audience to expand it over time. To me, the biggest downside is that it’s not your content. And ultimately you’re helping somebody build their audience and they’re in control of the narrative. But in both cases, I think being a podcast host or a guest is a great way to share your voice and story. You don’t need to have it all figured out today to get on the mic. I think that being a podcast host has helped me find my voice just as being a guest has helped because the questions I’ve been asked on other podcasts have helped me figure out what’s really valuable to my ideal audience. I will say that to me, the best podcast hosts who last for the longterm and consistently grow over time. Are the ones who enjoy the process of having a podcast. And if it feels like a chore or it feels like something that you are supposed to do. I don’t think it’s going to be the right fit for you. But if you feel compelled to start a podcast to create that space and to share your voice then I think it’s an amazing way to create authentic connections. If you don’t currently host a podcast, but you’re interested in learning more about the process. You’ll find a link in the show notes to my free podcast launch masterclass, where I’ll walk you through my signature podcast, launch playbook, and talk about some of the most common mistakes that I see new hosts, continue to make. I also want to make sure that you know where to find Sarah and Mai-Kee online since they have so much to offer for both podcast hosts and guests. Sarah: A great place to connect is in the podcast guest collaboration community, Facebook group, there is also a membership that I have, it’s called the podcast collab club, and it’s a place for hosts and guests to connect in a more intentional way. If you’re really looking for those aligned podcasts, we have a host directory in there. We have a guest directory in there. The listings are super thorough and that is very intentional. So that as a host, you can look at the guests and see exactly. What that person can bring to your podcast. And as a guest, you can look at the host information and see if this is a good fit. We also have virtual mixers for podcast hosts and guests to connect and There’s also a couple of guides in there as well. So it’s just a great place to meet other like-minded entrepreneurs who have the same goals and are really looking to make podcasting work for both sides. Melissa: You’ll find links to both the group and the membership in the show notes or visit w N Y r.com/podcast collab. Mai-Kee: I do have a free resource. It’s called be our podcast guests. And it’s where I’ve asked 25 podcasters. They’re out of the box advice to help . You book yourself on more podcasts. And you’ll find that a lot of them are actually very similar, but they’ve expressed it in different ways. I didn’t want it to just be my own personal experience, like from my 101 challenge where I was just projecting what people want, but literally you hear it directly from the host exactly what it is that they want. And also if you do want to do a deeper dive into be able to book yourself consistently on a line podcast without needing to hire a PR agency, I do have a workshop series called the ultimate podcast guesting workshop series. and it really is teaching you the timeless skills. And I really want to emphasize that because. The online business world moves at the speed of light sometimes, but there are some very fundamental principles are always going to be relevant. So the PR method that I shared with you will be than. Deeper into, into the seven elements of yesterday. The pitch, you’ll see an example. You’ll see how I deconstruct pictures. You’ll see how it works for people who have already done this work and how they express it in the unique voice, how to find out your own unique topics of influence. So you can stand out, and of course, walking you through the interview process of what that is like, how you can prepare yourself and also how you can do justice by everybody who you collaborate with Melissa: thank you so much for tuning in to this episode of the weight and wire podcast. If you have a friend who would enjoy this episode, I would love if you pass it along and don’t forget to follow or subscribe to this podcast. So you don’t miss any of our upcoming episodes. Today’s music is from blue dot sessions and you’ll find a full list of all my favorite podcasting resources in the show notes or at Witt and wire.com/resources. At N wire I’m on a mission to help more people build businesses. They love. And you can learn more about our courses for podcasters and course creators at witandwire.com/courses, or find me on Instagram, Tik, TOK, or YouTube @witandwire. In case you missed it? I would definitely recommend the previous episode on Tik TOK versus Instagram. So that’s coming up next. I’m Melissa Guller and a huge thank you again for tuning in. I’ll see you soon.